Canon’s premium PowerShot G16 and S120 get minor updates







Canon’s latest premium consumer cameras take on the smartphone by joining with it rather than continuing to fight, building in an easier Wi-Fi connection setup process as well as social media compatibility as their most outstanding new features. Though Wi-Fi is not new to the S series, Canon says the PowerShot S120 is easier to connect to cell phones and computers. Wi-Fi is new to the G16, though, which could be a welcome addition as smartphone users come around to wanting a little more from their pictures. Neither camera supports NFC (near-field communication), however, which would allow easy touch-to-connect functionality. Both iOS and Android are supported by Canon’s CameraWindow app.

Jump to:

PowerShot G16

Canon’s latest flagship enthusiast digital camera is mostly unchanged both outside and in, with the exception of its DIGIC 6 processor and Wi-Fi. Its fast F1.8 – 2.8 lens ranges from 28-140mm equivalents, allowing the retention of fast shutter speeds in low light, and its DIGIC 6 processor joins with the 12.1MP CMOS sensor, a combination Canon says will allow for better image quality in low light. Canon also says autofocus and shutter lag should be up to 50% faster with the G16.

Design-wise, the Canon G16 has a few new accents, with a more subtle curve to the grip and a harder edge around the top deck; otherwise, the look and feel is essentially the same. The G16 retains the front control dial, which is welcome for those shooting in Manual or semi-auto modes, as well as the increasingly rare optical viewfinder. Note that the lens ring on the G16 does not turn like the ring on the S120, but comes off to make room for accessory lenses.

The customizable shortcut button (marked with an S) moves from the left of the optical viewfinder to just under the movie record button on the right thumbgrip. A few buttons also change position on the back control cluster, with the metering mode button disappearing altogether. An EV compensation thumbdial juts out from the top deck of the camera just right of the optical viewfinder. The rear dial surrounding the control cluster complements the front dial, the pair allowing SLR-like control of aperture and shutter speed.

Other upgrades include a faster frame rate, which starts at 12.2 fps for the first six frames before dropping to 9.3 fps for up to 522 shots (when using a UHS-1 memory card, according to Canon). Full HD video is now available up to 1080 60p (up from 30p), with stereo audio mics and HDMI built in as before. Star Nightscape and Star Trails modes now allow capture of a field of stars in a landscape night scene, or star trails, using a longer exposure.

The Canon G16 is expected to ship in October 2013 for $550.

PowerShot S120

The main change to the PowerShot S120 is the slight increase to the maximum aperture, which now ranges from F1.8-5.7 instead of F2.0-5.9. This change addresses the fact that most other cameras in this category start at F1.8. Faster autofocus is listed as another feature worth noting, Canon claiming up to 50% improvement in shutter lag and AF speed.

The S120 still has the ring around the lens for a more mechanical feel when making adjustments. Rather than using an electronic motor as past S-series cameras did, the pop-up flash is now deployed via a sliding switch on the left side of the camera. A small Wi-Fi symbol sits below that, denoting its built-in Wi-Fi support.

Controls on the rear of the S120 are unchanged, and the LCD remains a capacitive touchscreen. The Canon S120 is also slightly larger than its predecessor, measuring 100 x 59 x 29mm rather than 99 x 59 x 27mm. Its frame rate has also improved to 12.1 fps for the first six frames and 9.4 fps for the remaining 635 shots with a UHS-1 SDHC/SDXC card. The Canon S120 now supports 1080 60p Full HD as well, with stereo mics and HDMI out.

The PowerShot S120 will ship in October 2013 for $450.


Press Release:

FOUR NEW CANON POWERSHOT MODELS PROVIDE IMPRESSIVE IMAGE QUALITY, POWERFUL OPTICS, AND FAST AUTOFOCUSING

MELVILLE, N.Y., August 22, 2013 – Adding to its trademark line of esteemed digital cameras, Canon U.S.A., Inc., a leader in digital imaging solutions, today announced the release of four new feature-packed PowerShot digital cameras: the PowerShot G16, PowerShot S120, PowerShot SX510 HS and PowerShot SX170 IS.  Designed to help photo enthusiasts create high-quality images and videos, these cameras feature advanced DIGIC imaging technology to deliver superb image quality in portable, compact digital camera bodies. In addition, all four models have the ability to achieve faster autofocusing speeds than was possible with previous PowerShot models. The PowerShot G16 and S120 also feature the new Star mode to help users capture the brilliance of a starry night sky, while the new Background Defocus mode allows users to soften the background of their images for a portraiture look.

For the connected photographer, the PowerShot G16, S120 and SX510 HS digital cameras come with built-in Wi-Fi® technology that allows for outstanding quality images and video files to be wirelessly transferred from the camera to social networking sites through CANON iMAGE GATEWAY#, to a PC, or users can upload images to virtually anywhere on their compatible iOS® or Android™ device* with the download of the free Canon CameraWindow app**.  The Wi-Fi® setup process has been improved by Canon, making it easier than ever for users to initially setup these cameras. Software no longer needs to be installed onto a user’s computer, so all initial setup can be accomplished from the user’s smart device or computer, allowing for easy photo sharing on-the-go. Images can also be printed wirelessly using Wireless PictBridgei on select printers, including the Canon PIXMA MG7120 or PIXMA MG5520 Wireless Photo All-In-One printers, so special moments can be preserved and cherished for years to come.   

“At Canon we are continually inspired to introduce the latest technological advancements to the PowerShot line of digital cameras,” said Yuichi Ishizuka, executive vice president and general manager, Imaging Technologies & Communications Group, Canon U.S.A. “Although smartphone camera popularity is continually increasing, the PowerShot line of cameras offers features such as advanced image sensors, high-quality optics, low-light capabilities and extremely fast autofocusing speeds that, when combined, are unrivaled by smartphone technology.”

PowerShot G16 Digital Camera

The PowerShot G16 digital camera builds upon the success of the PowerShot G15 by utilizing some of Canon’s most innovative technologies. The first PowerShot in the G-series to come equipped with built-in Wi-Fi® technology, the G16 has the ability to share images and video to social networking sites such as Facebook®, Twitter®, YouTube®, and Flickr® or via email through the use of CANON iMAGE GATEWAY. Users can also upload images from almost anywhere via their compatible iOS® or Android™ device with the download of the free Canon CameraWindow app.

The PowerShot G16 features a 28-140mm wide-angle lens with an aperture range of f/1.8 – f/2.8, which helps while shooting in low-light conditions or for users who want to create a dramatic shallow depth-of-field with soft backgrounds. The G16 is equipped with Canon’s HS System, which combines a DIGIC 6 image processor and a 12.1-megapixel High-Sensitivity CMOS image sensor, allowing for enhanced low-light image quality.

With improved AF times and reduced shooting lag over previous G-series models, the advancements to Canon’s AF system help ensure users never miss a shot. Continuous shooting speeds of up to 9.3 frames-per-second are possible with the PowerShot G16, allowing users to capture images in full resolution as they happen***. The G16 also captures 1080p/60p Full HD video, and includes a built-in stereo microphone and an HDMI output so users have the ability to view videos on their HDTV.

The PowerShot G16 also features new shooting modes to capture breathtaking images day or night. The new Star mode gives users the ability to capture the brilliance and wonder of the night sky through the use of three scene modes. “Star Nightscape” lets users shoot the radiance of stars in a landscape image, while the “Star Trails” mode captures trails of stars to turn them into a luminous still image. “Star Time Lapse Movie” captures continuous still images of the stars and then combines each to create a stunning video replicating the motion of the stars in the night sky.

In addition, the camera’s creative handheld HDR Scene mode automatically combines multiple shots of a scene to help create an image with a greater dynamic range without the necessity for a tripod. HDR Scene mode includes Natural, Art Bold, Art Embossed, Art Standard and Art Vivid options.

For photographers who want the convenience and ease-of-use of a compact camera with the feel of a DSLR, the PowerShot G16 features dials and controls similar to those on Canon’s EOS Digital SLR cameras.  It is also compatible with Canon Speedlite flashes and select accessories.

The PowerShot G16 is scheduled to be available in October 2013 for an estimated retail price of $549.99.

PowerShot S120 Digital Camera

Succeeding the PowerShot S110, the pocket-sized PowerShot S120 digital camera continues the tradition of built-in Wi-Fi® technology that allows for images and video to be shared to social networking sites or via email through the CANON iMAGE GATEWAY.  Users can also download the free Canon CameraWindow app to their compatible iOS® or Android™ device and upload images from virtually anywhere.

The PowerShot S120 features a sharp 24-120mm extra-wide angle lens with an aperture range of f/1.8-f/5.7. It is equipped with Canon’s HS System, which combines a DIGIC 6 image processor and a 12.1-megapixel High-Sensitivity CMOS image sensor allowing for enhanced low-light image quality. The advancements to Canon’s AF system allow users to achieve significantly faster autofocusing speeds. The S120 allows for continuous capture of up to 12.1 frames per secondii at 12.1-megapixels. The camera also records 1080p/60p Full HD video and includes a built-in stereo microphone and convenient playback via HDMI output.

Multiple creative shot modes such as the new Star mode, Background Defocus mode, and handheld HDR Scene mode give users the ability to create images they will be proud to share.  Smart AUTO technology selects 58 different pre-defined scenes without the need to switch modes, making it possible to take beautiful images in a variety of situations.

The PowerShot S120 is scheduled be available in October 2013 for an estimated retail price of $449.99.

For more information about the PowerShot G16, S120, SX510 HS, and SX170 IS digital camera models please visit: www.usa.canon.com/powershot.

#One-time registration is required on CANON iMAGE GATEWAY online photo album.
*Compatible with iOS version 6.0/6.1 or later and Android devices version 2.3/4.0/4.1/4.2 or later. Data charges may apply.

**This software enables you to upload images to social networking sites. Before uploading images, please be aware that image files may contain privacy related information such as people and places. If necessary, please delete such information. Canon does not obtain, collect or use such images or any information included in such images.
***The first six shots are shot at a rate of up to 12.2 fps. From the sixth shot onward, it becomes approximately 9.3 fps. The PowerShot G16 can continuously shoot up to 522 shots at approximately 9.3 fps when using an SDHC/SDXC UHS-I memory card based on Canon’s standard test method.
i PictBridge (Wireless LAN) certified printer is required.
ii The first six shots are at a rate of up to 12.1 fps. From the sixth shot onward, it becomes approximately 9.4 fps. The PowerShot S120 can continuously shoot up to 635 shots at approximately 9.4 fps when using SDHC/SDXC UHS-I memory card based on Canon’s standard test method.

Canon PowerShot G16 additional images

Canon PowerShot S120 additional images

 

Canon PowerShot G16 & S120 specifications





















































































  Canon PowerShot G16 Canon PowerShot S120
Price
MSRP $549.99 $449.99
Body type
Body type Compact
Sensor
Max resolution 4000 x 3000
Other resolutions 4000 x 3000, 4000 x 2248, 4000 x 2664, 2992 x 2992, 2816 x 2112, 2816 x 1880, 2816 x 1584, 2112 x 2112, 1920 x 1080, 1600 x 1200, 1600 x 1064, 1200 x 1200, 640 x 480, 640 x 424, 640 x 360, 480 x 480
Image ratio w:h 1:1, 5:4, 4:3, 3:2, 16:9
Effective pixels 12.1 megapixels
Sensor photo detectors 12.8 megapixels
Sensor size 1/1.7″ (7.44 x 5.58 mm)
Sensor type CMOS
Processor Digic 6
Color space sRGB
Color filter array Primary Color Filter
Image
ISO Auto, 80, 100, 125, 160, 200, 250, 320, 400, 500, 640, 800, 1000, 1250, 1600, 2000, 2500, 3200, 4000, 5000, 6400, 8000, 10000, 12800
White balance presets 7
Custom white balance Yes (2)
Image stabilization Optical
Uncompressed format RAW
JPEG quality levels Superfine, Fine
Optics & Focus
Focal length (equiv.) 28–140 mm 24–120 mm
Optical zoom 5×
Autofocus
  • Contrast Detect (sensor)
  • Multi-area
  • Selective single-point
  • Tracking
  • Single
  • Continuous
  • Face Detection
  • Live View
  • Contrast Detect (sensor)
  • Multi-area
  • Selective single-point
  • Tracking
  • Single
  • Continuous
  • Touch
  • Face Detection
  • Live View
Autofocus assist lamp Yes
Digital zoom Yes (4x)
Manual focus Yes
Macro focus range 1 cm (.39) 3 cm (1.18)
Number of focus points 9
Lens mount None
Screen / viewfinder
Articulated LCD Fixed
Screen size 3
Screen dots 922,000
Touch screen No Yes
Screen type TFT PureColor II G LCD TFT PureColor II G Touch screen LCD
Live view Yes
Viewfinder type Optical (tunnel) None
Photography features
Maximum aperture F1.8 – F2.8 F1.8 – F5.7
Minimum shutter speed 15 sec
Maximum shutter speed 1/4000 sec 1/2000 sec
Exposure modes
  • Auto
  • Hybrid Auto
  • Program AE
  • Shutter priority AE
  • Aperture priority AE
  • Manual
  • Custom
  • Movie
  • Creative Filters
  • Scene
Scene modes
  • Portrait
  • Smart Shutter (Smile, Wink Self-Timer, Face Self- Timer)
  • Star
  • Handheld Night Scene
  • Underwater
  • Snow
  • Fireworks
  • Portrait
  • Smart Shutter (Smile, Wink Self-Timer, Face Self-timer)
  • Star (star nightscape, star trails, star time-lapse movie)
  • Handheld Night Scene
  • Underwater
  • Snow
  • Fireworks
Built-in flash Yes
Flash range 7 m
External flash Yes (Hot-shoe) No
Flash modes Auto, On, Off, Red-Eye, Slow Sync, Second Curtain Auto, on, slow synchro, off
Drive modes
  • Single
  • Continuous
  • Continuous with AF
  • Self-Timer
Continuous drive Yes (12.2) Yes (2.1 fps)
Self-timer Yes (2 or 10 sec, Custom)
Metering modes
  • Multi
  • Center-weighted
  • Spot
Exposure compensation ±3 (at 1/3 EV steps)
AE Bracketing (3 frames at 1/3 EV steps) (at 1/3 EV steps)
Videography features
Format
  • MPEG-4
  • H.264
Microphone Stereo
Speaker Mono
Resolutions 1920 x 1080 (60 or 30 fps), 1280 x 720 (30 fps), 640 x 480 (30 fps)
Videography notes Miniature Effect (720p, 480p): 6fps, 3fps, 1.5 fps; Super Slow Motion Movie (480p, 240p): 120, 240 fps; Star Time-Lapse Movie (1080p): 15 fps Miniature Effect (720p, 480p) 6fps, 3fps, 1.5 fps; Super Slow Motion Movie (480p, 240p): 120, 240 fps; Star time-lapse movie (1080p): 15 fps
Storage
Storage types SD/SDHC/SDXC
Storage included None
Connectivity
USB
USB 2.0 (480 Mbit/sec)
HDMI Yes (Mini)
Wireless Built-In
Wireless notes Wireless LAN (IEEE802.11 b/g/n)
Remote control Yes (Optional wired remote or via smartphone) Yes (via smartphone)
Physical
Environmentally sealed No
Battery Battery Pack
Battery description Lithium-Ion NB-10L rechargeable battery & charger Lithium-Ion NB-6LH rechargeable battery & charger
Battery Life (CIPA) 360 230
Weight (inc. batteries) 356 g (0.78 lb / 12.56 oz) 217 g (0.48 lb / 7.65 oz)
Dimensions 109 x 76 x 40 mm (4.29 x 2.99 x 1.57) 100 x 59 x 29 mm (3.94 x 2.32 x 1.14)
Other features
Orientation sensor Yes
Timelapse recording Yes (Star time-lapse movie)
GPS Optional
GPS notes via mobile (linked to compatible smartphone)
















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Canon PowerShot G16
Canon PowerShot S120


Comments

Hachu21

Just “cosmetic improvements”? are you sure?
– new sensor + new image processor
– faster autofocus and reduced shooting time lag ( http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/product/cameras/powershot_g16.do )
– one of the fastest continuous shooting (9.5fps limited to…one hour)
– focus peaking for manual focus on stills and videos
– handheld HDR and nightscene
– exposure time up to 250s
– background defocus mode (2 pictures stacked, not the average “paintbrush style filter”)
– 60p fullHD movies
Well… if i agree there’s no “killer feature”, you can’t say it’s nothing! (and “minor update” is a bit abusive too!)

mjdundee

C’mon Canon – again just cosmetic ‘improvements’ with a higher price tag on a once very popular series.

Wiil you ever ad the front control ring and a 24mm lens to the Gs?

This would increase the number of potential buyers by 100% – I bet.

CameraLabTester

After this update:

Canon will put out a contest for the next updated model:

SPOT THE UPDATE CONTEST

The first 100 correct answers will win an updated camera.

Easy to win. There only be 1 to 2 updates…

.

howardroark

You’re witty. I’m sarcastic.

yabokkie

a teaser campaign?

would like an electronic ballot displayed after 10,000 shutter releases to vote for new/upgraded features of the next camera.

you can buy a dozen of cameras and vote a dozen of times if you are dying to have a vital upgrade (there will be 100 upgrade candidates 50 of them minor and 50 micro).

walkaround

What an ugly awful “update”. My G15 is actually a decent camera at ISO 80, and has great ergonomics, but they could have made the finder 100%, added a tiltable LCD, and added a working assignable control ring. That would have been a G16 worth getting.

Sean Nelson

Too little, too late. I’ve been waiting for what seems like forever for Canon to get with the 1080p60 video programme, but I just bought a Sony RX100M2 because it’s the first compact to have both that and a flip LCD.

Sorry, Canon – you snooze, you lose!

howardroark

Using that 60p for all the pro video work you do? I think Canon will do just fine without you.

_Federico_

Not only without him….

cgarrard

I love reading these over the top Sony recommendations on almost every Canon announcement. Predictable as the sun rises.

RedFox88

60 fps will make video look too much like TV vs. movies. Plus 60 fps will end up with larger files sizes compared with 24 or 30 fps. I’m happy with my G15 although I’d like 50% faster focusing and shutter lag. Must be another implementation of the 70D image sensor technology.

Sam Carriere

Nothing new here. Who needs or wants WiFi on a camera?

howardroark

Not required, but using my phone as a remote control and wireless backup would be very handy.

samhain

I think the g16 is actually pretty good looking. As far as canon & Nikons go anyway. Too bad it has such a small sensor.
Canon, more than anybody, has the capability to put out some truly amazing cameras & lenses.
Yet they just keep putting out dumbed down products lacking anything interesting or exciting. All potatoes, no meat.

I’m just grateful there’s companies like Fuji out there who actually listen to their customers, and strive to put out the best products possible- rather than just doing the bare minimum & relying on their namesake to sell cameras.

howardroark

LOL I needed a good laugh. Canon bust their butt and people whine. 70D, G1 X, 6D, G and S lines…..the only thing missing is constant BS Fuji tech that ends up doing nothing. Fuji is great at coming up with sensor tech that is useless.

Tape5

It is good to see Canon galloping along like a blind horse.

samhain

^ this.

Dimit

Will I ever be excited by Canon (and Nicon for sure..)?
Always tiny,veeeeery tiny steps forward..seems like Sony,Fuji,Ricoh deal with the innovation,freshness,excitment thing..

howardroark

Excitement doesn’t take pictures. If a thrilling camera is required to get you taking pictures maybe somebody needs to invent a vibrating camera.

fotokeena

We have vibrating phones, so yes, a vibrating camera is in the works, be patient, next year’s upgrade.

RunStrom

Canon had far more to offer in the G9 in the face of the opposition when it was launched.

RedFox88

The thing is P&S sales are dying quickly. I’m surprised Canon decided to update the G15 this year since they had waited 2 years on the G12 so they could have easily gone 18 or 24 months before a G16 instead of just 12.

c76

I see so many people complained about the new G16, I can’t understand why? there are many buyers are not like you or me, maybe 1/1.7 size of sensor is good enough for them, some buyers are P&S shooter for their whole life, they don’t even know what we talk about here.., I”m not a G buyer, not G15 or G16, I think it’s expensive ugly low-end product, and selling at sky high price, there are too many much better choice out there, but look at the G15 user’s reviews everywhere, it’s almost like 5 stars perfect camera and Canon sold bunch of it.

NO matter you like or not, Canon is right with the market on this one.

wlad

the point is, this $500 P&S is not significantly better than a $200 P&S.
With RX100, the difference is obvious.

cgarrard

It is? What difference. The 1 stop of DR, and extra resolution?

What about the superior lens quality of the G15/16 over the RX’s?

What about the superior aperture brightness of the G’s over the RX’s?

What about the superior handling of the G’s over the RX’s?

One advantage does not make anything obvious.

C

SAERIN

Just read the specs — the OVF is tunnel perhaps like my G-11 at 70%.

RedFox88

Who’s using the OVF on a P&S these days? Not anyone I know that has one with it.

kinglau711

The G15 was a decent camera.

But could we stop the JOKE here, please.

Is this really an update ?

– The same useless viewfinder
– No articulated screen
– The same tiny sensor for an advance compact in 2013 ( Fuji X20, Sony RX100)
– Given this size, no GPS
– No panorama mode
– The price of an entry DSLR
– Wireless flash capability ?

I hope Fuji and Sony will shake this company
1/ that is too comfortably settled and is resting on its laurels
2/ NEVER listen to their customers

tkbslc

Fuji X20 has a 12% larger diagonal. I hardly think that puts it in a different league. RX100, sure.

Elaka Farmor

Did anyone here REALLY believed that Canon should come up with something else than they did toady? They had over one year and still has no camera to match the RX100……lol!

howardroark

You’re right…they beat the RX100 six months before it came out.

cgarrard

Sony didn’t even make a serious compact with raw after 2004 at all….until the RX’s. G series cameras have been dominating.

Cipher

Canon = Toyota. Stick with safe boring albeit reliable products.

tkbslc

…..that generally lead in sales and fill the average consumer’s needs extremely well.

AbrasiveReducer

A perfect analogy but the “fans” just don’t get it. And if Canon makes a mistake, it’s like those Lexus cars that had problems with the accelerator. That sure put Toyota out of business.

wlad

The analogy would be perfect, if Toyota produced today the same cars on the same platforms as in the 80’s with just new headlights design.

SAERIN

What about the OVF. Is it a 100% view of the LCD.

larsbc

I’m pretty sure it isn’t. I don’t think there’s parallax correction, either. I never used the OVF with my G11. I might’ve, had there been some shooting info displayed in it, such as the AF point location.

Marvol

I guess, given the pace of ‘improvements’ in the G-series, this is still at least the same OVF as the G11 has, which my gf has.

That one covers around 70-80% (it does zoom with the lens), is tiny, and has some parallax issues. It is useful for very low and very high light levels, when the LCD can’t be used.

At least the G11 has a tilt/swivel screen which helps to reduce flare… and the G16 still hasn’t, although Sony managed to squeeze a flipout into the much smaller RX100II. Progress, wha?

JEROME NOLAS

NONODY reads DPR in Canon’s HQ in Japan, If they would, we’d have exciting new products, not this “meh” another boring camera for your retired(and retarded) uncle Joe.

herosi

My Uncle Joe is no retard but I believe you’re an imbecile though.

tkbslc

Canon doesn’t read DPR comments because armchair CEO’s rarely actually make good suggestions.

Tape5

At least Nonody reads it. If Nonody keeps it up it may encourage others to start reading DPR too.

zodiacfml

Canon=huge dinosaur
These stuff are uncool.
There is little value in adding social media capability even to the avid social media user because why bother if it is still best done on a smartphone especially those with data plans?

Step it up.

yabokkie

> bother if it is still best done on a smartphone

what do you mean by “best done”?

Francis Carver

Wow, Canon still believes that WIDE angle starts at the 28mm focal length, huh?

Almeida

Canon S120 starts at 24mm.

Karroly

The Canon S120 starts at 24mm and ends at a slow 120mm F5.7, versus a faster and longer 140mm F2.8 for the G16. More than 2 stops better ! It means you can use ISO 800 on the G16 when you are at ISO 3200 on the S120, for example. A huge advantage with small sensors ! More interesting to me than a 24mm lens.
You cannot have both : wide angle and fast tele. Unless you go to a smaller sensor…
Some also complain about Canon not releasing a camera with a RX100-like sensor. But the bigger sensor of the RX100 leads to a shorter zoom and a slower tele end (100mm F4.9) than the G16.
Always the same constraints and trade-offs that many users seem to ignore or do not want to understand…
Sometimes you have to buy more than one P&S to cover your photographic needs. As you may have to buy more than one lens when you own a (D)SLR or MILC…
Do not expect the universal camera to come soon…

yabokkie

RX100 is 28-100mm f/4.8-13 equiv., and
S120 is 24-120mm f/8.1-26.
so for the lens part RX100 worths nearly 3 times as S120.

28mm equiv. is wide enough for me.

cgarrard

“These stuff are uncool”

Nuff said for me, quit reading after that.

RedFox88

Riiight…they are lagging so far behind in sales they need to step up their game, LOL!

EvokeEmotion

Boy that G16 is one ugly looking camera.

photoguy622

I agree. How you take a simple understated camera like the G15 and turn it into this is beyond me.

Change for the sake of change, I suppose.

DDWD10

The G has been getting steadily uglier since the G10.

Francis Carver

It’s a veritable monstrosity. What type of brain cooks up something this butt-ugly?

Karroly

Maybe it is a new strategy to fight against smartphones : frightening them…

Ferling

With anything goes these days; articulating screens, larger sensors, and better EVF, etc. All those features that give one pause to reconsider dumping their DSLR, (trust me, I’d like to dump mine when I eventually retire). Is it time to consider that the differences between a modern PS and DSLR are mute, and we should start asking for more?

My main concern with the habit of pro use, even though I’m shooting non-pro shots, is what capability and IQ can I get when I switch it to “M”? Whether I’m shooting a DSLR or a PS, the time, motions and efforts of composing and taking good shots are the same. So, at the end of the day, when I’m loading up the images into the LR, will I happy with the end results for those same efforts?

Mine is not an isolated issue for pros. I’ve met many novices in various amusement parks and on family outings whom relented and bought a DLSR, and their reason is pretty much the same: They want quality results for their efforts.

photobeans

In daylight shots, there’s really no real separation between high quality p&s and DSLR. The only difference is if you like nice buttery bokeh you have to use a DSLR with appropriate lens. Indoors, a different story.

Ferling

I agree to certain extent. I have 40″ prints from an old Pany LX3. You can accomplish a lot with 10MP and very sharp lens when handled correctly.

I’ve met many a novice at amusement parks, weddings and sporting events, whom upgraded to a digital rebel or other entry level DSLR and remarked on how happy they were to never having to “wait” for the camera anymore. These folks are what point and shoots are targeting, and yet they don’t have to be pro or experienced to realize that they want DSLR performance. They spend all day shooting, and want results for their efforts.

It’s obvious why vendors are holding back.

Robert P Miller

The lack of an articulated LCD is the deal breaker for me. Otherwise, this seems to be priced OK for what you get.

Lallous

I am quite disappointed to see that the S120 still does not offer a Panorama mode. Panasonic, Sony and Nikon and many others offer Panorama mode, but for whatever reason, Canon still does not. Canon will have you do a cumbersome and time consuming software stitch to create a Panorama, instead of an automated camera built-in hardware Panorama stitch. This is a deal breaker for me.

Impulses

Stitching is actually ridiculously simple on a PC if you use something like MS ICE, like, two click simple… But I agree, the average consumer isn’t gonna bother and it’s silly ether they haven’t incorporated a much easier to use sweep mode like just about everyone else, I loved having it on my Sony travel zoom I’m enjoying it just as much on my Panasonic LF1 (>>> S120).

Neodp

A cell phone camera is generally not the real threat to camera sales; but it is to these, small sensor cams.

You would think, the manufactures know how to put together a balanced benefits camera, including a value price. Why don’t they?

howardroark

You’re saying a 1/3.2″ (4.54 x 3.42 mm) sensor in a typical smartphone threatens a 1/1.7″ (7.44 x 5.58 mm) sensor? 15.5 mm^2 versus 41.5? Not to mention a pretty damn good lens?

PaulRivers

I think he’s saying that that difference in size (and the additional burden of carrying a camera) is not worth $450 to most people. And from what I’ve seen, I agree.

howardroark

Most people who use their phone as their primary camera are those who wouldn’t spend money on a camera in the first place. The advent of Facebook/Instagram/other-crap-services-that-steal-your-data-and-make-you-feel-important coinciding with the rise of the smartphone is the only reason people preach about how revolutionary a (pretty lousy) camera on a phone is. People are lazy, this is true. The want to carry a phone. They want to carry a phone with internet. What? It has a camera on it? I can post online or create “art” with an app I paid a dollar for? People will “like” it? Then I think I’ll take some pictures!

Andy Crowe

@howardroark Smartphones aren’t threatening compact cameras’ image quality, they’re threatening their sales. The best camera is the one you have with you, and for most people that camera is their phone.

Don’t forget that the top 3 most used cameras on Flickr are the iPhone 5, 4S and 4!

howardroark

Andy, let’s look at that statement. Flickr is an online photo sharing site. Smartphones like the iPhone have direct connection to the internet at all times (with very few exceptions). With the increase in smartphone sales it is unsurprising that a majority of photos going to any photo sharing website would be coming from devices with a direct line from the camera to the web. This is an increase in overall volume with smartphones leading the charge, but that does not imply a decrease in the volume of images being taken with standalone digital cameras. DSLR sales are growing. The market for p&s cameras may already be saturated but they still seem to sell like hotcakes. And as for the camera you have with you, I do take a lot of images I normally would not have taken because I have my phone right there. The cat in my lap when I can’t move but my phone is already in my hand, for example. Plenty of others use it as their primary and never owned any other sort of camera before that.

peevee1

“You’re saying a 1/3.2″ (4.54 x 3.42 mm) sensor in a typical smartphone threatens a 1/1.7″ (7.44 x 5.58 mm) sensor?”

Nokia 1020 has 1/1.5″ sensor, bigger than this thing, and others will follow (Sony is about to release a phone with 1/2.3″ sensor, for example). Also, not only size, but tech also matters. If you have 180nm 1/1.7″ CMOS sensor vs 1/2.3″ BSI-CMOS, say, at 32nm LP tech (about 4-5 yeas old), guess which one will win. And Canon’s G1X, APS-C and FF sensors use even older 500nm tech.

Andy Crowe

@howardroark Flickr isn’t facebook or instagram tho, it’s a relatively “serious” photo site is tailored towards photography enthusiasts. If anything you’d expect camera phones to catch on less there as you’d think users would be more likely to insist on higher-end gear.

PaulRivers

” The market for p&s cameras may already be saturated but they still seem to sell like hotcakes.”

What do you base this on other than wishful thinking? Not only are compact cameras not selling like hotcakes, they’re not even selling like boring and reliable products – their sales are going down not up. Here’s the first article that came up in a search –

Nikon Sees Smartphones as Answer to Declining Compact Camera Sales
http://hothardware.com/News/Nikon-Sees-Smartphones-as-Answer-to-Declining-Compact-Camera-Sales/

howardroark

Flickr still has an app for our smartphones and it used to be more serious than it is today…thanks Yahoo. I find the transition of popular cameras going from three smartphones to the 5DIII and 7D very telling. Some people do a lot of phone shots, some people are serious, and who know how many of those pictures are posted by the same people who own a serious camera. I’m going with two groups: serious and not so serious as you might hope for a serious site.

PaulRivers

“Most people who use their phone as their primary camera are those who wouldn’t spend money on a camera in the first place.”

I’ve known girls who have bought a seperate camera because they couldn’t get decent pics with their phone inside. When they find that their new camera isn’t actually any better, they often return it and get their money back.

Before the Nokia 1020 at least, no camera phones could take decent pics of people in indoor lighting. People were still looking for cameras to fill that need.

howardroark

Exactly…they didn’t spend any money on a camera. Not only that, they bought a camera without knowing anything about it and now somebody has to buy a camera that is used or the store has to sell it at a discount to offload it.
People have wildly unrealistic ideas about what cameras can do and how much you have to pay to get a certain level of quality. The camera on a phone today is much better than it used to be, but it’s still noisy, has serious issues focusing, has no real zoom, etc. etc. So basically people who don’t have a clue use a phone camera and are impressed enough not to care and don’t see the advantages of a decent camera because it’s not worth it to them to pay much more. People with very low standards are very easy to please, and if they don’t really want to take their camera out of Green Box mode (don’t tell them it means “automatic because you don’t care and/or are lazy” mode) then I can see how a phone camera would make them expect a TON from a real one.

RedFox88

Thanks pany troll!

AbrasiveReducer

These are fine, but I stlll hold out faint hope for a faster G1X. For its size, the image quality is just outstanding, but I understand why people will choose smaller sensors in exchange for faster operation (and lower price, of course).

howardroark

I think there will be a G2 X within the next year or two and it will kill. Put Dual-Pixel AF in a G2 X and you’ll steal the thunder of every camera with a smaller sensor not to mention some with larger ones.

p ward

Hopefully a G2X will have real macro capability. The G1X has problems in that area. I liked the IQ in normal shooting situations but I traded mine in on a G15 primarily because of the poor macro performance–also the G1X was a little bulky for a travel camera.

howardroark

I seriously doubt it will have significantly better macro capability. The large sensor makes getting a reasonably sized lens on the body hard enough already. The close-up filter is great and I use mine all the time.

blemont denis

Last disappointing day.
Why not put the swivel screen on the G16 and when improved viewfinder?

Neodp

Ah, the dream of a pocket camera. Too bad the sensor is so small. Too much typical DOF, and lacking color sensitivity. Muddy lens IQ?

SWSF14

Canon did just enough with the Android/iOS implementation. They will continue selling tons of these cameras with their saturation in the retail marketplace. It’s disappointing that they did not upgrade the sensors but that’s how it goes when it comes to making more out of the average consumer. I’m considering a RX100 (MK1) now. God bless Sony for trying.

howardroark

Funny how improvement is praised above consistent excellence. The RX100 looks like a revolution compared to Sony’s extensive catalog of garbage. And the G1 X was denounced by Sony fans for not being a dramatic change in technology despite being a dramatic departure for camera design. When Sony allows their fans to have scraps from the table in the form of a 1″ sensor they lap it up like they’ve been given water after forty years in the desert.

SWSF14

Canon no doubt has had longterm success and a solid overall lineup that one would not hesitate to recommend to others.

I just happen to only carry one camera at a time, so I will always pick the “revolutionary” one if I have a choice. God bless having choices?

howardroark

Yes, thank goodness we do have choices. My first camera was a Sony because it was the best image quality I could get in something smaller than a human head for a reasonable price. After using it and later the Canon 10D and A620 I did choose a Sony W something or other for the office camera and was reminded of what I dislike about Sony. No doubt the RX100 is a very good camera. I usually only carry one camera at a time and I knew when I saw the G1 X I would never hesitate to bring it along. Some cameras are large and not worth the trouble in some circumstances, and I’ve defintely owned cameras and lenses that I wouldn’t take with me because I knew they weren’t worth the compromise in image quality. To each his or her own, as the case may be.

ThaQuest

It’s funny how far the S-series has fallen from grace. The S90 was the hottest thing around when it was released!

tkbslc

Well it hasn’t changed much from then. The S models still sell well. they just don’t generate huge buzz because they are no longer something different.

Ben O Connor

Any improovement from previous models?

?

John McCormack

Ben,
Check the Imaging Resource preview. Lots of improvements in speed. http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/canon-s120/canon-s120A.HTM

rrccad

improvements to lcd, optics, speed (AF, burst mode, FPS with AF), video improved, features.

whensly

Wow the 90000 lb Gorilla in the room is the fact that Canon is petrified by the idea of an EVF. Their M series camera missed it, these G9-16 continue to miss it. Obviously Canon “does not want to go there” but they have the tech and they MUST!

I would own the G16 if it had a good EVF. Earth to Canon, hello?

howardroark

No, they simply refuse to force people to pay for trash they won’t use. That’s not to say someone who wants it shouldn’t, but they know that MOST people do not find it valuable enough to pay for. If they increase the price to pay for it they know they’ll lose more sales then they gain by making the camera cheaper. This isn’t dynamic corporate strategy here….it’s doing a plot on Excel and being able to see.

rrccad

I agree with you here, canon really needs to get with the times .. an EVF would make the G16 so much better.

Tan68

I don’t think an EVF has to be leading edge technology to be useful. So it doesn’t have to be expensive.

A not top grade EVF or an optical finder with best effort to correct parallax error…

I vote EVF in that case.

howardroark

It also doesn’t take many dollars to totally screw up a product’s marketing strategy. If they lose enough sales with a higher profit margin, they will still lose money on the deal. Engineers aren’t the ones in charge, it’s the marketing and money people.

W5JCK

It’s difficult to get excited about lackluster updates to small-sensored cameras. The thing which seems odd to me is that they added a “nightsky” mode to the G16 but did not give it an articulated screen. Ever try pointing a camera on a tripod into the sky without an articulating screen? It’s rather difficult to point and focus a camera upwards when it is attached to a tripod. You would need to contort yourself into a weird and uncomfortable position. My G1 X works beautifully for nightsky because it has an articulated screen and a large sensor with terrific IQ. But the G16 will fail in this role. So it begs the question of why they included such a mode with this camera?

white shadow

Well, Canon is trying very hard to convince people to buy this “updated” version. Shooting night skies is one.

Seriously, if one want to shoot a night sky he will have to use a DSLR preferably one with a full frame with a manual focus lens with an infinity stop. The Zeiss 35mm f2.0 excel in this type of photography. Try it to find out.

Does anybody believe that the G16 can provide a decent photo at ISO 12,800? That is really stretching it.

For a small sensor camera, I wouldn’t shoot anything in low light more than ISO400 whatever they say.

p ward

I reluctantly bought my daughter a G15 a few months ago. I too was concerned about the small sensor. After having used it a bit myself, I have to say I was quite impressed by the IQ in low light–the lens an processing probably deserve credit. There results were WAY WAY better than my older Nikon P7100. I was also concerned that they ditched the flip screen and that HD video was limited to 24fps. But at least they kept the optical viewfinder, unlike Nikon. The lack of a flip screen slims it down so I can see why they did it, though I still miss it. Overall, I now think the G15 is a great camera. The G16 improves the video to 60p, and adds wifi, which brings it up to par with the competition. Yes it still has a small sensor, but don’t knock it til you tried it. I was really surprised at how well the G15 performed.

Tan68

mmm, chair?

If you are pointing at stars… I used to sit in a chair and look through my telescope when I was younger. I think a chair and tripod could be arranged well enough for framing things you can photograph with this camera; it isn’t like you have the magnification to isolate a crater on the moon…. Worth a try, maybe?

howardroark

Canon doesn’t want excitement, it wants money. They aren’t here to excite YOU, they are here to pursuade people in the market to buy their cameras. Not many people get excited about cameras. They buy them because they feel they should. “I’m having a baby so I guess I finally need a camera…..what’s the cheapest one I can buy?”

PaulRivers

This is so lame.

Sony came out with the rx100 which put a much larger sensor in a slightly larger body.

Nikon came out with a phone camera that puts a slightly larger sensor (than the s100/s120) is a much smaller body.

Canon…once again makes petty updates to it’s cameras. Oh – and they actually **raise** the retail price for their camera as well. The s120 is now $450? The s95 was $400. They haven’t made improvements of any real significance since then.

Seriously, it’s no wonder everyone just uses their phone cameras.

PaulRivers

Oh, and as others mentioned, the Panasonic Lumix DMC-LF1 has the same body size, same sensor size, f2.0 lens, and zooms to 200mm.

John McCormack

Not everyone needs a large sensor camera. 99% of users just post to the web. I’ll take the 24mm FOV over big pixels.

howardroark

When is Sony going to put a large sensor in a compact body? No, not 1″. I mean one on the scale of the G1 X. They have the 1″ RX100 and the FF RX1. Where’s the camera for me? Sony is dumb. The G1 X has turned out to be truly one of a kind. If there had been something similar after from anyone else I might have been given pause to question my decision. As it stands I waited about four or five years for a camera like the G1 X and since its release nobody else has had the brains or balls to do anything remotely similar.
People who think phone cameras are the end all and be all of photographic tools deserve to be exploited the way Facebook does on a daily basis since that’s where most of their goofy “selfies” or Instagram crap goes.
Once again Canon does something that every camera company does every day. One camera here or there doesn’t nullify the majority of the line that is boring and slow to change. RX100 doesn’t erase Sony’s other abysmal cameras.

calmwaters

I really liked the look and the idea of the G1 X and thought about getting it. The AF was slow, so I heard from the reviews, and it wasn’t a great low light camera. I prefer about 1.8 so I bought the Oly XZ-1. It’s a great camera but I’d sure love to have the sensor size your G1X has. Do you know if they are going to put out a second model of it?

howardroark

Considering Canon’s history the lifespan of even oddballs like the G1 X is usually at least three or four generations, although sporadically released. Remember, for a while people thought the G line had been discontinued because of the huge gap between releases. My G1 X is as good in low light as my 7D as far as image quality. AF isn’t nearly as bad as some reviewers state, but it’s not stellar either. AF works fine in low light but certainly faster in bright light as one would expect. I personally think the G2 X will be out within a year and probably with the Dual-Pixel technology. Thern there will be a high-end M, G2 X, 7DII, and 70D on the market with a similar sensor and competing on size and other features.

PaulRivers

“Not everyone needs a large sensor camera. 99% of users just post to the web. I’ll take the 24mm FOV over big pixels.”

That’s actually true. What’s also true is that they’re using the camera in their phone to do it.

It’s like selling a car that goes the same speed as a bike, then claiming people don’t need more than that anyways. Whether that’s true or not, why would anyone buy a car that isn’t better than their cheaper, smaller bike?

PaulRivers

“It’s a great camera but I’d sure love to have the sensor size your G1X has.”

The closest you can get right now is either the Sony rx100m II, or a m43rds camera.

No one knows for sure if Canon will announce more stuff, but at the moment it seems unlikely.

Tan68

“… goofy “selfies” or Instagram crap goes.”

An article for Instagram was just posted. They don’t like you to use ‘Instagram’.

You should say “crap for Instagram” and not “Instagram crap”.

They are cracking down.

Joseph Mama

Geez. These are some lame upgrades.

jose vu

“Multiple creative shot modes such as the new Star mode, Background Defocus mode, and handheld HDR Scene” –> wow, copy too much from Sony???
Anyway, it is welcome, however I wish they update my S100 to have handheld HDR too …

cordellwillis

Is this something Sony invented? No one in the world saw such a feature prior to Sony?

Tan68

I don’t think Sony was the first with HDR mode…

Don’t help Sony be the new Apple.. owning everything before it was invented. :^)

jose vu

I only mean the “background defocus” feature from Sony, not the HDR 😀

vroger1

I was just about to write a friend about the fact that here we were at the tail end of August and Canon had not introduced its usual August upgrades -then I looked and here they were. Regrettably not including the one I had hoped for- an upgrade- lens wise to the G1X. The G1X is excellent except the lens is too slow. I recently took advantage of the reduced price on the EOS 6-but because of no EVF I use an OVF and only the 22mm prime (35mm EFL) and the images are excellent. With the G1X I use the v/f which follows the lens. Still I was hoping for an upgrade.

Gesture

And we wonder why the camera industry is struggling. At these prices, I’d buy an entry-level DSLR, time-travel to the future, apply a particle reducer and have a great compact.

Tan68

Ehh. The scaled down, particle reducted SLR is a Pentax Q.

How about buy a compact, time-travel to the future, TARDIS it up a bit and have a great SLR.

whtchocla7e

As a prospective buyer of a compact camera, I’m not impressed with these offerings. The small sensor just doesn’t appeal to me.

dwl017

Buy the Canon EOS M or any of the many affordable M 4/3 cameras out now.

vroger1

G!X sensor is fine.

Len_Gee

G2X is going to be announced soon.

white shadow

Forget the zoom. Just get the Ricoh GR and you will get excellent image quality in a pocket.

p ward

It might not impress on specs, but I wouldn’t rule out the G16. I’ve had many compact cameras from Canon, Nikon and Olympus, including the large sensor G1x. Out of all of them, the Canon G15 is my current favorite. When I do serious work I lug my Nikon DSLRs, but when I want to travel light I grab the G15.

howardroark

Oh Canon, why isn’t every announcement geared to entertain and excite gearheads on sites like this? You are such a useless company making products that sell to customers who only show up to DPReview the day before they actually buy the camera….or not at all and then go online later to write a review that goes something like “I didn’t read any reviews or specs so when this camera didn’t do what I thought it should do I was shocked and returned it.” This is just another sign that Canon is falling behind the times, as long as “the times” refers to keeping 12 people happy with crazy new technologies that really make very little difference in taking a real picture and that normal consumers don’t really notice anyway. Since when was “incremental” a four letter word? This could be “the day” back in which you just bought some crappy film camera that really wasn’t updated every ten years much less one or two years.

dwl017

Buy the Canon EOS M for $299 these new 1/1.7″ sensor cameras are a joke and the price points are crazy to say the least.

yabokkie

is the sensor Canon or Casio?

Heliconius

Apparently Canon profits more from selling Eos lenses to point and shooters.

Photato

Nokia has a 41MP sensor. Canon decides 12MP is best for enthusiast Cameras.
Wonder who is right in regards to pixel density?

howardroark

A few years ago Canon mercifully stopped the megapixel wars on its end and decided to concentrate on the quality of the pixels rather than the numbers. Maybe there was enough talk on camera sites like this about wanting decent high ISO images. The Nokia 41MP sensor has to bin those pixels in order to make an image that isn’t garbage….along with all sorts of smoothing and noise reduction. The tiny lens and tiny sensor is not the same as making a 41MP full frame sensor then putting it behind a good lens.

Photato

But Nokia doesn’t have a full frame sensor nor the G16 lens is trash as you seem to imply. Also, nothing stop Canon to go the oversampling route in sensor design if they think that produces better image quality.

Revenant

For me, “enthusiast” means more physical controls, better build quality, a fast and sharp lens, manual exposure modes, the option to shoot raw and use accessories like flashes, filters and converters. I’d rather see an improvement of lens sharpness than more megapixels.

howardroark

Canon is doing what it thinks is best for image quality, and in terms of balancing noise, detail reproduction, color fidelity, etc. they are right. I didn’t say the G16 lens was trash, I said the Nokia lens is tiny and the sensor is tiny. The G16 lens and sensor are enormous by comparison. Their full well capacity is much, much greater than the Nokia sensor pixels, which means a better S/N ratio no matter how good quantum efficiency happens to be. There is no reason to cram all those pixels in there because they would still have to combine them to end up with an image that isn’t noisy garbage.

yabokkie

> The Nokia 41MP sensor has to bin those pixels in order to make an image that isn’t garbage….

you bin garbage into art, that’s great. but
whatever in the art has to be in the garbage already.

howardroark

Cogent as always, yab.

yabokkie

maybe an over simplified claim but
lower the pixel quality, higher the image quality.

howardroark

Yes, we all know that’s what you believe. You have plenty of tiny sensors with tiny pixels and giant MP counts to keep you busy until rapture.

papillon_65

“maybe an over simplified claim but
lower the pixel quality, higher the image quality.”

Not only oversimplified but also incorrect, I don’t suppose you noticed the release of the D800? My Nokia 808 takes better images downsampled to 8mp than many DSLR’s.

yabokkie

you don’t have to downsample any image to make it better. downsampling always means lower image quality.

I know that many people have problem to tell the difference between pixel quality and image quality. even at DPReview they don’t have a definition of image quality yet.

papillon_65

You don’t have to downsample but if you do it can make the image quality better, and in the case of the Nokia 808 it does, I take it you’ve used one? I’m guessing not otherwise you wouldn’t have said
“downsampling always means lower image quality.” which is a completely incorrect statement.

Andy Crowe

Ah yabokkie, changing what you believe again to suit whatever thread you’re trolling? Let me remind you what you’ve said:

(15/08) “I’m interested in image quality.” “so you are talking about pixel quality. then, how you convert pixel quality to image quality? or you are not interested in image quality at all?”

But here you are talking only of 1:1 pixel quality and not of overall (like for like resolution) image quality? So which is it?

yabokkie

@papillon_65, as I said pixel is not image.

image is about subject and should be measured against a subject (that occupies a certain portion) in the frame, like the face of your kid which we call image but never pixel.

should be careful with pixel that you effectively increase pixel area when do downsampling, that you won’t have a level ground to compare pixel qualities unless you define it first, like absolute size in sqmm (which tells sensor technology) or relative size in % or ppm sensor area (which translates straight into image quality).

a simple image quality comparison for pixel peepers may be pixel qualities of different sensors at a certain pixel count, like DxOMark SNR 18%-print figure (8 MPix).

Andy Crowe

> should be careful with pixel that you effectively increase pixel area when do downsampling, that you won’t have a level ground to compare pixel qualities unless you define it first (like absolute size in sqmm or relative size in ppm sensor area (which translates straight into image quality).

What are you on about? You compare the image quality of different resolution images by downsizing both images to the same size, obviously.

yabokkie

since the sensor area of 2/3″ (Nokia Lumia 1020) is about 6.7% of D800, you may get about the same pixel quality at about 6.7% of pixel count or downsampling to 2.4 MP (to get the same pixel area of 23.8um2).

> by downsizing both images to the same size, obviously.

to the same pixel count.
I think that’s one simple method most people can understand easily.

howardroark

The quickest way to have a neverending argument is to argue with a fool.

papillon_65

Nokia spent 2 years and millions of pounds developing the Nokia 808, believing that downsampling is the way forward to improve image quality on a small sensor. Having seen the output at both 38mp and then 8/5/3 mp from the same sensor I happen to believe it was money well spent.
Now if you’re talking about quality images as opposed to image quality then thats a different argument altogether.

yabokkie

I don’t mind fools nor hostility, but
would like to make DPReview a nice place for everyone.

yabokkie

> who is right in regards to pixel density?

well Nokia “high” pixel count was mostly designed for tele reach using a fixed (aperture) lens, which is not the priority at Canon at the moment.

I expect most cameras will be somewhere between 40 and 160 MPs with possibly much more photo diodes or whatever on the sensor.

Andy Crowe

> since the sensor area of 2/3″ (Nokia Lumia 1020) is about 6.7% of D800, you may get about the same pixel quality at about 6.7% of pixel count or downsampling to 2.4 MP (to get the same pixel area of 23.8um2).

But you’re just pulling meaningless numbers out of thin air again. Look at the Canon 5D I at 12mp vs one of the new FF cameras at much higher resolution. By your logic the 5D I /must/ be better because it has a larger pixel area.

> to the same pixel count. I think that’s one simple method most people can understand easily.

But just before that you said “downsampling always means lower image quality”, which provably isn’t true because if you take a modern FF camera and downsampled the image to 12mp it would be a lot better than the old 5D’s image.

Either you genuinely believe that a ruler is the best way to determine image quality, or you are a tiresome troll who changes his views based on whatever makes an argument in a thread.

yabokkie

@Andy Crowe

it’s great that you think Canon make good progress over the years while many are complaining they cannot find it.

Andy Crowe

@yabokkie so what you’re saying is that a sensor with smaller pixel area but the same total light can produce better image quality? Because that’s the opposite of “lower the pixel quantity, higher the image quality”…

yabokkie

what’s the lowest pixel quality that you can think?

howardroark

Andy, yab believes that the smaller the pixel the greater the pixel quality. He believes that quantum efficiency trumps s/n ratio. He honestly believes that if you had a full frame sensor with 160MP you’d have the ultimate image….actually, he’d prefer every atom on the surface of the sensor be a pixel. Wavelength of light, full well capacity, and any other concern is meaningless. Smaller pixels are better, the end. I’d suggest you stop now before his perspective makes your brain melt and you end up drooling in a mental institution. Ever argue with a brick? Prepare yourself.

peevee1

“said the Nokia lens is tiny and the sensor is tiny”

The sensor is actually bigger than the 1/1.7″ in G16, if we are talking about Nokia 1020 (2/3″), and sensor in 808 is even bigger. f/2.2 optics is not too bad either.

Andy Crowe

yabokkie what does “lowest pixel quality” actually mean? do you mean pixel quantity? because that actually makes more sense for what you said before.

yabokkie

@Andy Crowe
say how about a full well depth of 1?
that would make a perfect sensor right?

howardroark

Told ya. He don’t get that you’d just as likely have one e of noise as one e of signal.

justmeMN

A nice incremental upgrade of models that still sell well. That’s what most companies do.

Perhaps they will do a G 2X or S1 X in the future, although the EOS M series may have pushed the G X sensor out of the lineup.

photoguy622

I still miss the GPS from the S100, but the f/1.8 is a nice upgrade.

The rest of these “upgrades” seem minimal at best.

yabokkie

faster frame rate at 9-12 fps is good.

Jogger

Just goes to show the engineering marvel that is the RX100/M2 if other manufacturers are still putting smaller sensors in larger bodies, without flipscreens or hotshoes.

howardroark

That’s a joke, right?

yabokkie

> still putting smaller sensors in larger bodies

at least,
G16 and S120 don’t get smaller sensors in larger bodies than
G15 and S110, so things are not getting worse.

GH3 and G6 are.

peevee1

S120 is actually a little bigger compared to S110.

Impulses

The RX100Mk2 is larger than the original which itself was larger than any of the Canon S models… The difference isn’t monumental but the RX100Mk2 is now thick enough so as not to fit into some of the pockets that the S line can fit into… I imagine it’s got more to do with the swivel display and the hotshoe than the sensor size tho.

The RX100s also pack shorter lenses…

There’s definitely room for improvement on the S110/120 form factor even if you ignore sensor size though. Panasonic’s LF1 is just about the same size and it packs in an EVF plus a longer 200mm lens that still starts at f/2. Maybe Sony will get really gutsy and release a slimmed down RX90 or something at one point…

It sure doesn’t look like any of the other manufacturers wanna compete with the RX100 tho.

Alex Riley

The rest of you might want to disparage the G16 but I am delighted with what I have read about it. I had intended to upgrade my (still excellent) G9 to a G15, but the one thing holding me back was its use of Digic 5. I have an S100 which I use underwater and that has Digic 5, but its AF seriously struggles in low light. Digic 6 is apparently much better.
The fact that this is a minhor upgrade gives me confidence that there will be minimal teething problems.
The RX100 is a fine camera but does not match my requirements. Bang on about snsor size if you must, but I get results which satisfy me with my G9. And flip-out screens aren’t much use under water!

peevee1

They claim Digic 6 is 43% better. If G15 is struggling, then G16 will be struggling, just a little less.

p ward

I’m fan of the G15 but agree that the new processor will a big benefit. Even better low-light performance, quicker response and finally 1080 HD at frame rates faster than 24fps.

Potemkin_Photo

$550 for a G16 when you can get the, EOS-M with wide lense, flash, and a much bigger sensor for $350?! Are you freaking kidding me? Whatcha be smokin Canon?

SHood

The G1X in was selling for $479 on this past weekend in Canada. I would take that over the G15.

AbrasiveReducer

It is an interesting comparison. If you don’t mind slow focusing, you can get much higher image quality and much closer focusing for much less money.

David Hurt

Heck, I just bought a G15 the end of December – sure NOT going to upgrade to the G16 – & I could care less about Wi-Fi. I now use my G15 more than I do my 50D. However, I will note that the G15 does a Great job with Hi-Def video.
And, I kept my G7 – as it is still working good & who knows when I or someone in my family might need a camera?

Jeff Peterman

The change to a manual flash mechanism is a big improvement on the S camera. With my S110, there have been too many times that I’ve turned the camera on with my finger near the top of the flash, and this caused an error as the flash tried to pop up at startup.

beavertown

Get the V1.

G16 is pointless and expensive.

_sem_

I was considering a V1 as a P&S replacement. But it is too big (with lens) and has no built-in flash.
Erhm, what was the starting price of the V1?

cgarrard

LOL a V1, wouldn’t be caught dead with that ugly thing.

peevee1

Fight – Canon G16 vs Panasonic LF1.

Impulses

They’re not really the same class of camera… S120 vs LF1 (no contest IMO, get the older S if you’re pinching pennies tho) or LX7 vs G16 would be more appropriate.

Source Article from http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/08/22/canon-premium-powershot-g16-and-s120-get-minor-updates